The Roast of Ahrefs Podcast

Once Upon a Podcast... (Insight Foraging)

Tim, your podcast began the same way I started mine (Everyone Hates Marketers): "I want to have conversations with marketers I admire." Cute. Touching, even.

But that's where the similarities end, because I started my podcast 9 years ago at a time when podcasting wasn’t a tactic used by every single marketer on the planet to promote their stuff. The other difference is that I actually bothered to figure out who my listeners were and what they actually needed.

A bit harsh? Okay, maybe.

You're operating on pure gut instinct, Tim. And while your gut has served you very, very well in building a $ 100 M+ company, I think it's failing you spectacularly in podcasting because everyone and their AI agent runs one these days.

Let's start from the beginning.

You've never actually dug into what your listeners really need. When we gathered info for this roast, your team told me people listen to "learn and be better at marketing." That may be true, I guess, but it’s missing this je-ne-sais-quoi that makes it useful.

Here's what I found mining reviews from our respective marketing podcasts and some of your YouTube comments:

Note #1: Since Everyone Hates Marketers and the Ahrefs Podcast have very similar audiences and styles, I've used reviews from both to extract insights. You can use the same tactic to learn about customers by focusing on direct or even indirect competitors.

Note #2: I used our STFO Insights tool to find some juicy insights. I’m not going to share everything I’ve learned from it just yet, but just know we’re going to use these reviews to analyze the rest.

Notice the pattern? It's not about "learning marketing." It's about feeling less like an imposter, staying ahead of changes (*cough* AI *uncough*), and cutting through the bullsh*t.

But I know why you haven’t foraged for insights like I recommend in Stage 1 of my book: you’re allergic to them. "People vote with their wallets," you said, meaning, “People don’t know what they want, and most feedback is useless.”

And I agree 100%. You can’t trust what people say. However, insight foraging is not about gathering random customer feedback (read, opinions) and incorporating it all into your work. It’s about gathering the right insights and selecting the ones that matter to you.

Verdict: 1.5/5. You started with good intentions by starting a podcast that you’d wanted to listen to, but you're missing the magic that comes from systematic insight gathering. The good news? Unlike glass slippers, insights are something you can still find after midnight.

Your Glass Slipper Moment (Unique Positioning)

Your podcast is like Cinderella wearing her stepsister's hand-me-downs to the marketing ball. You don’t have a unique positioning, Tim, because you don’t offer something that other resources (such as podcasts, audiobooks, conferences, etc.) don’t offer. Which, in turn, means that potential listeners do not have a compelling reason to choose you over others. Let's fix that by answering the core questions that'll give your show a reason to exist.

Job: What are listeners trying to accomplish?

The "job" is the specific goal your listeners are hiring your podcast to achieve. Not what you think they should want, but what they actually need to get done. This matters because without a clear job, your content becomes a random collection of interviews with no coherent purpose.

When we talked, you said your listeners' main goal was to "learn and be better at marketing." Tim, mon ami, that's like saying people eat food to "get nutrition." Technically true, completely useless for creating content they’ll actually consume.

Everyone has an ego, and marketers more than most. Those "high-level CMOs, VPs, and Heads" you mentioned? I’m pretty sure they're not thinking, "I need to learn marketing." They're thinking, "I need to grow this business without getting fired."

But, for your podcast to have a fighting chance, we need to be more specific. I’d like to drill down to find something that you can directly impact, a goal that relates to your overall business. For this reason, I’m leaning toward “grow online visibility.” It's specific enough that you can directly impact it, broad enough to matter, and directly tied to what Ahrefs actually does best.

Click here to expand his image.

Alternatives: What other solutions are they using?

Understanding alternatives means knowing what else your listeners could choose instead of your podcast. This isn't just other marketing shows… it's EVERYTHING competing for their attention. Why does this matter? Because you need to understand what you're really up against to stand the f*ck out.

You already know this, but your podcast isn't just competing with other marketing shows. It's competing with Netflix, sleep, and that infinite scroll of LinkedIn posts.

IMDB has over 22 million titles (movies, TV shows, TV episodes), Spotify has over 100 million tracks, and Audible has over 470,000 audiobooks. Source.

Scary thought, right? You're not competing against 50, 500, or even 5,000 marketing podcasts. You're competing against infinity. (Random note: I remember feeling my brain actually exploding inside my cranial cavity when the concept of infinity (∞) was first introduced in maths class. How can something be just… endless? Anyway.) It's competing with books, audiobooks, TV shows, blogs, and, as Netflix's CEO famously noted, even sleep.

Like Cinderella realizing she's in a dance-off with every princess who ever existed.

Struggles: What problems are they trying to solve?

Struggles are the obstacles preventing your listeners from growing online visibility (achieving their job). The magic happens when you identify struggles that alternatives ignore… that's your opening to stand the f*ck out. Miss this, and you're just another voice that blends the f*ck in, in an overcrowded space.

Let’s narrow things down by looking at the job we’ve identified, which is “growing online visibility.” In this case, we’re not competing against infinity anymore. Why? Because the vast majority of podcasts, audiobooks, Netflix movies, or Drag Queen shows don’t help with getting more seen online. This is my advice to avoid being overwhelmed by differentiation: don’t try to fight infinity.

Here's the million-dollar question you haven't answered: What is preventing listeners from growing their online visibility that alternatives ignore completely?

Using the SOS framework from Chapter 5 of my book, I’m going to try to find specific struggles your listeners are facing by answering.

This is what I came up with:

• Self-love: Avoid feeling like a fraud when starting a new marketing role or getting a promotion as an SEO/content marketer

• Control: Avoid using unethical tactics while still growing traffic and generating more customers.

• "Look at me!"Confirm they're not being left behind today’s trends, such as LLMs, while everyone else seems to know what they’re doing.

• Reducing risk: Stop wasting time with false marketing prophets selling courses on how to sell courses.

I don’t know about you, but I feel more grounded after writing those down. 

Segment: Who should you actually serve?

Your segment isn't demographics… It's the group of people who experience your identified struggles more intensely or frequently than average. Get this wrong, and you're broadcasting to everyone and connecting with no one.

Your podcast is stuck between two worlds, like Cinderella with one foot in the kitchen and one on the ballroom floor. You’re known for SEO and content marketing expertise, but your podcast tries to be a general marketing show for "high-level executives." That's not your audience, Tim. That's your fantasy audience.

Your real audience? Folks who want to grow their online visibility or help their clients do the same (SEOs, content marketers, SaaS CMOs…)

Let’s use the Intense/Frequent Struggle technique to identify people who experience a particular struggle more frequently or intensely than the average person. To use a simple analogy, who do you think struggles more with bug bites? Someone who got stung once by a mosquito or someone who got attacked by a swarm of bees?

Let’s look at the struggles identified earlier, and cross-reference them with typical segment attributes.

Pair this with the fact that Ahrefs’ audience wants to grow their online visibility, we can describe Ahrefs Podcast’s segment, the group of people we have a chance of convincing to give you a go.

Previous:

high-level CMOs, VPs, and heads of marketing

Now:

Scrappy, self-taught marketing nerds at mid-sized companies who've been burned by bullsh*t tactics but refuse to sell their souls, stuck between bosses demanding overnight results and their own desire to not be digital marketing assholes.

Your Glass Slipper Moment (Unique Positioning Statement)

Okay, we’ve got everything we need to craft a statement that describes your meaningful difference and unique positioning. I call this the unique positioning statement:

Unlike alternative(s), [area of focus] is the only category to solve ignored struggle(s) and get job done for segment.

I came up with this for you:

Unlike traditional digital marketing advice, the Ahrefs Podcast is the only marketing podcast that obsessively investigates what actually works in digital visibility right now, helping scrappy, self-taught marketing nerds cut through the algorithmic bullsh*t without selling their souls to the digital devil.

This is your glass slipper moment: I feel this is the right fit between what your people need and what you can offer. Your meaningful difference. A compelling reason for folks to listen to YOUR show instead of… doing pretty much everything else.

Verdict: 2/5. Your podcast needs to embrace its true identity rather than trying to dance with every prince at the ball. Focus on what makes you special, your unmatched knowledge of digital visibility.

Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Brand (Distinctive Brand)

You now have a compelling reason for listeners to choose you over Netflix and sleep. But if nobody knows you exist in the first place, this positioning is useless. Time for some brand magic, Tim.

Your Hidden Monster

First, let's talk about why you need a monster. A monster is a semi-fictional enemy that represents the struggles your audience faces. It gives people something clear to blame and rally against, instead of feeling guilty about their own failures.

Without a monster, your podcast is just another collection of interviews with no unifying purpose.

Here's what's driving me crazy: Ahrefs already has a perfect monster for your podcast, but you're completely ignoring it.

On your homepage, your founder states:

"Big internet companies are making suboptimal decisions to push market valuation. We see more and more ads in search results, in newsfeeds, everywhere, and not enough care for the people who are actually creating content."

Source: Scroll to the bottom of Ahrefs' homepage.

This is gold, Tim! Your monster is big internet companies that prioritize profits over genuine content creators. This monster explains why your listeners feel like frauds… it's not their fault the system is rigged against them. It's not their fault that good content gets buried under paid promotions. It's the monster's fault.

But your podcast? Radio silence about this. You're sitting on something that could unite your people against the algorithmic overlords. It’s fine to ask questions about growth, but don’t forget the underlying message.

Without this monster, your listeners have no one to blame but themselves for their struggles. With it, you become their champion against a common enemy. It's like telling Cinderella's story without mentioning her evil stepmother… technically a story, but nobody gives a sh*t because there's no villain to defeat.

Your Missing Battle Cry (POV)

A point of view is how you consistently signal to your audience that you're on their side against the monster. Right now, you don't have one. I’m going to be a bit harsh here, but your episodes could be hosted by any marketing podcast. There's no distinct Tim Soulo perspective cutting through, apart from, maybe, your challenging interview style where you dig deeper than most hosts.

To develop this cohesive narrative, let’s use my CHIPS framework, mentioned in Chapter 9 of my book:

• Common Belief: What others tend to think or do.

• Happen (What tends to Happen as a result):

• Impact: How it's affecting your segment.

• Proof: Why others should believe you (logic, personal anecdotes, stories, stats…).

• Solution: What should be done instead.

Let’s not reinvent the wheel here. Your POV is already infused in what Ahrefs does, but let’s structure it so it can be infused into everything you do as a podcast host:

• Common belief: Big internet companies care about profits, not users.

• Happen: This creates a flood of contradictory, clickbait marketing advice.

• Impact: Marketers waste time, feel like imposters, and can't tell what works.

• Proof: Just scroll through your LinkedIn feed.

• Solution: The Ahrefs Podcast reveals what actually works, like a fairy godmother turning marketing pumpkins into carriages.

But where is this battle cry in your actual episodes? You're too polite, Tim. Your audience is drowning, and you're offering them a gentle conversation instead of a life preserver.

Let me show you how your POV can be infused deep into your show. At the moment, your episode structure goes like this:

• An intro featuring one of the best moments of the show shared by the guest

• A tiny transition into the actual interview

• And the full interview with Tim, challenging the guest with questions specific to each guest

What’s missing? A coherent narrative, woven into the very structure of the podcast episode. This narrative must link back one way or the other to the monster we’ve identified. Without it, we’re left with a series of random interviews without coherence. Why do you even exist? Why should I pay attention to you? For example, you could share your manifesto at the start of every show. 

"The algorithms are changing. Big companies are hiding the truth. But one marketer is obsessively investigating what actually works. I'm Tim Soulo, and this is Ahrefs Podcast, where we uncover the real secrets behind online visibility."

Okay, okay, I’m sure you can make it sound better, but I’m sure you understand what I’m trying to say here. Go on, point your flag in the ground. Do it. Do it now.

But you can do more to be noticed, oh so much more. 

Your Secret Weapon (Spices)

Now that we've addressed your hidden monster and missing POV, let's talk about spices: the tangible actions that bring your POV to life in a way digital marketers looking to grow their online visibility will notice. You need to align what you say with what you actually do. Without spices, this is impossible.

In Chapter 10 of Stand The F*ck Out, I recommend using the framework "too (adverb) (adjective)" to define your spice. It's about pushing yourself to the edge of the map where no other podcasts dare to explore, creating ways to act that others can't easily copy.

Your spice could be "too obsessively investigative." I meme, look at this mean. Sorry, I mean, look at this meme:

When I think of “too obsessively investigative,” I think of those movies/TV shows featuring a madly obsessed detective who everyone thinks is full of sh*t, but ends up tearing down a massive corporation or conspiracy. Dark Waters, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, or Mr. Robot are examples of this subgenre.

Let’s use Mr. Robot as our alter ego. The plot? Elliot Alderson, a deeply unstable cybersecurity genius nobody believes, takes on E Corp, a monstrous corporate entity.

What would Elliot Alderson do if he were running a marketing show?

• The podcast would be structured as internal monologues, speaking directly to the audience as his "imaginary friend."

• Episodes would begin with "Hello, friend. Is that what I should call you? I'm going to make you listen to the truth about marketing today..."

• He'd research guests to uncomfortable depths, revealing things they didn't know were public. They would be treated as potentially compromised, with penetrating questions about their corporate ties.

Sounds like fun, doesn’t it? And that’s just the beginning. 

Your Rags-to-Riches Makeover (Assets)

Right now, your podcast branding assets scream "generic marketing show #47,293." Besides Tim Soulo as host and the Ahrefs logo, this could be anyone's podcast.

What if you transformed completely?

1. I’d change the name from the impersonal and slightly misleading “Ahrefs Podcast” to something like “Mr. Soulo by Ahrefs.” We want to keep the brand recognition, of course, but we also want to hint at a concept that goes far beyond what is expected.

2. I would play with the traditional Ahrefs colors and font. “Mr. Soulo” is its own thing. It’s not about SEO, it’s not about Ahrefs and the way they work, it’s much deeper than that.

3. And, because it’s a podcast, let’s not forget the soundtrack. How about a low-fi, underground aesthetic with glitchy sound effects and distorted voices? Something to raise listeners’ blood pressure until it reaches hypertension levels.

That’s just one concept, one idea amongst the millions of possibilities. But the transformation from "Ahrefs Podcast" to something distinctive isn't just nice-to-have; it's survival. In a world of infinite content, bland is death.

Verdict: 1/5. Your podcast is wearing rags when it should be the most talked-about show at the marketing ball. The fairy godmother's wand is right there... you just need to use it.

Before the Clock Strikes Midnight (Continuous Reach)

Tim, I’m not going to insult your intelligence here by pretending I know more about customer acquisition than you. Your blog and YouTube channel are considered top-class in the tech industry (with over 620,000 subscribers!). Your team understands capturing demand, playing the long game with promotion, and building an audience.

You work hard on that podcast, Tim. You spend hours researching each guest, you craft really challenging questions, and your team puts a lot of effort into producing it. Let's find ways to put you in front of more eager listeners.

The Royal Announcement (Trigger Analysis)

Podcasting is a different beast, and Peep Laja explains why better than I ever could:

This is why we need to understand the specific triggers that lead someone to seek out marketing advice. It’s one of the most overlooked customer acquisition concepts: people don’t take action unless something causes them to. For example, a senior marketing leader could have been suffering from imposter syndrome for years (the struggle) without doing anything about it. It’s only when they’ve accepted a new CMO position (the trigger event) that they finally decide to work on it (which may include searching for resources like marketing podcasts).

From my experience running Everyone Hates Marketers, there are three core triggers:

• New role/job: A marketer just landed a senior position and feels immediate pressure to deliver. The team welcomes a new hire.

• New targets/KPIs: A new quarter has just started with ambitious goals. The board approved a new marketing budget (with strings attached).

• New competition/panic: A direct competitor just launched and is gaining traction. Traffic/conversions/revenue have suddenly dropped.

Next, we could tap into these triggers to pinpoint the perfect places to connect with your listeners. But, again, I don’t want to insult your intelligence; those channels are obvious: running frantically on the social media hamster wheel, turning interesting interviews into SEO articles, or using Ahrefs’ massive influence to promote the show to their existing audience. You know this already. Instead, let me try to challenge you.

The Royal Carriage (Channels)

Here's where I want to challenge you with a technique I call "Become the Trigger." Instead of just being present when triggers happen, you engineer moments that create word-of-mouth. Word-of-mouth is marketing gold, and it can be engineered, using conversation-worthy stories that spread organically, even if the listener isn't actively looking for your stuff.

I come back to this excerpt (from the stellar book How Brands Grow - Part 2) often:

The key phrase is, in my opinion, "Conversation-worthy stories about the brand are particularly valuable, as they can be shared without an explicit need to know someone is in the market for a category or brand."

In other words, people share stories that make them look smart or interesting... even when they're not actively looking for advice on growing their online visibility.

In your juicy "10 lessons you’ve learned from 10k downloads" article, you say that “piggybacking off your guests doesn’t work.”

I agree with you, but I have one caveat. Hoping that guests will share your show that’s yet-another-marketing-interview-podcast is soooooo 2019. This tactic used to work, but, like anything marketers touch, it inevitably turned to sh*t.

HOWEVER! Guests will be more likely to spread the word if there’s something worth sharing. It may sound super obvious, but I sincerely believe that a concept that stands the f*ck out, like my Mr. Soulo idea, will dramatically improve the chances that it gets shared.

Using the Talk Triggers (Daniel Lemin and Jay Baer) framework, here are two conversation-worthy stories you could engineer:

• Empathy: Create a meme for each guest that captures a specific moment from their interview, something they'll actually want to share. Memelord is a great tool for getting ideas.

• Generosity: Provide a "classified dossier" with each episode; the guest's actual working documents, templates, and processes that no other podcast offers.

So, piggybacking off your guests doesn’t work… unless we find a way to give them something worth talking about.

The Midnight Warning (Offers)

Phew. We’ve done loads of work together. Thank you for sticking with me. The last step is to figure out an offer that makes listeners want to give your show a go. It’s the culmination of all of the hard work we’ve put in so far.

​Your podcast is your offer, Tim. What people see scrolling through their podcast apps is your storefront.

Your cover art needs to wake people from their content hibernation. It needs to scream "This is different" before they even hit play. Then those first 30 seconds need to hook them with your investigative promise.

Verdict: 1.5/5. You have the royal carriage, but you're not using it effectively. The clock is ticking, and your opportunity could turn back into a pumpkin.

The Royal Decree (Final Verdict)

Final Score: 6/20. You care about your podcast and it shows. More people deserve to listen to it, and I hope you'll try some of my advice to make it stand the f*ck out more.

Your transformation plan:

1. Stop flying blind. Figure out what your listeners actually need, not what you think they should want.

2. Find your glass slipper. Focus on "digital visibility" instead of "everything marketing."

3. Name your monster. Big internet companies are rigging the game against creators.

4. Get your ball gown. Transform into something distinctly investigative that other hosts can't copy.

5. Dance before midnight. Show up when marketers are desperate for real answers, not just when they're casually browsing